Assistant Chief Adam House, who is in charge of training, health and safety for the Sacramento Metro Fire District in California, and Assistant Chief Bryan Norris, the Executive Officer of Emergency Services for the San Antonio Fire Department in Texas, join Chief Keys to discuss how their departments implemented changes to procedures in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.
ABOUT THE HOST:
Battalion Chief Keys completed a total of 31 years of service, beginning as a firefighter for a high volume station in the Bronx. As a Captain and Lieutenant, he served various municipalities including Midtown Manhattan, until settling into East New York Brooklyn, where he became Battalion Chief. Within his new role he took charge of Research and Development where he learned how new innovations are tested and introduced to the fire service.
Check out the Sacramento Metro Fire District.
Check out the San Antonio Fire Department.
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Hosted by: Fire-Dex
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (00:03):
Hello, and welcome to Rapid Fire, a podcast hosted by Fire-Dex, dedicated to sharing best practices and lessons learned in hopes of making firefighting a little bit safer. I'm your host, Bob Keys, retired Battalion Chief from FDNY. Today we are fortunate to be joined by Assistant Chief Adam House of the Sacramento Metro Fire Department in California. Chief House is the officer in charge of training, health and safety for Sac Metro. We're also very fortunate to be joined by Assistant Chief Brian Norris. Chief Norris is the Executive Officer of Emergency Service for the San Antonio Fire Department in Texas. How are you guys doing today?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (00:39):
Fantastic out here in California. Although I heard you’re comfortable with your weather, we're over a hundred degrees. So ramping up, not only COVID-19 stuff, but we're dealing with, obviously the wildfires out here in counseling,
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (00:53):
Certainly have your hands full. How's things in Texas, chief?
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (00:56):
Just like Sacramento, they're getting hotter. And so unfortunately it's hot and wet and face masks are not fun right now. So we're hoping this, this whole thing,ustarts to ramp down a little bit very soon.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (01:09):
Well, that's a point I hadn't thought about dealing with having aware of face masks and extreme heat. I have not had to deal with that just yet myself. We're still just coming out of winter here in Utah. So my first question for both of you is what types of things did your department do to prepare for the COVID-19 pandemic. Adam?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (01:27):
So, this hit ups hit us pretty hard in about early part of March and recognized we were facing what everybody was facing was the unknown. So early, early March 19th in line with the state of California, we declared our district's emergency operation plan and we set up an emergency operations team. And really the plan for that team was to get consistent verifiable information out to all of our members, decreasing anxiety and how we're going to start to respond to this event.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (01:57):
Well, of course, you guys already had procedures for communicable diseases. This is not the first one we've ever had to deal with. I think many departments started out that way, going back to their plans to put together for H1N1 or some of the other pandemics that we've had in the past. How about in Texas, Chief Norris?
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (02:14):
Well, I don't know if it's a curse or a blessing, but we actually began back in February where we began in receiving planes from actually Wu Han China with us citizens on there. And then we started a couple of weeks after that, getting some airplanes with people who work over as positive from some of the cruise ships that you've heard about in Japan and San Francisco. And so we were fortunate early to get ahead of a lot of different things and figuring it was going to come to South Texas eventually, right? Then we partnered with our Metro health and our rack to start a very strong relationship there. And like you were saying with our experience with Ebola patients in different things that have come around since then, our infectious disease response unit was a piece of that along with some state resources. And then our mobile integrated health team actually really stood up to start a coupling with Metro health here to do visits. When you started to hear about the travelers returning from China, all of those different things that the government has put in place, we were able to get ahead of a lot of different things on a local level because of those things we had to deal with it initially.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (03:09):
Well, how would your firefighters get tasked with interacting with these known infected people coming off planes? I think they went to one of your military bases close by weren't they?
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (03:34):
When you started to hear about the travelers returning from China, all of those different things that the government has put in place, we were able to get ahead of a lot of different things on a local level because of those things we had to deal with it initially.Yes. And so initially it was going to be a full federal operation. The CDC was there, the re-did mat teams deployed. We were deployed as basically a state resource for our IDRU to transport people to the hospital. If they needed to come on base. It turns out that that was not how it all went down. And if you got sick on base, then you were coming off base and you were not allowed to return. And so that forced the spin up of a lot of local resources governmental resources. You can imagine the politics that surround that on both the local state and federal levels. And so it started to become kind of prevalent around here that we knew there was going to be community spirit eventually. And so we were able to start standing up resources locally to try to deal with this while dealing with the other people that were at Lackland air force base.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (04:26):
Wow, thank you. Has this COVID-19 pandemic changed your department's procedures? Adam?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (04:34):
You know, most of our SOPs and SOGs for previous events, infection control policies were in line with what we were expecting, and those continued to be the same. The change for us was kind of the unknown, obviously the PPE usage and how we responded to calls with practical application. Number of people going into survey patients from initial treatment or assessment of the scene that certainly changed like everybody in the nation PPE was a concern of ours. So we started heavily monitoring PPE usage and making best practices. Information out to all the members very quickly. Our mobile integrated health, we were fortunate to stand up 4 total in our area. They were planned to stand up anyway, this just kind of started that process a lot earlier. We identified you know, a lot of trends working with our health agency and health officer, and it was kind of a changing role daily with some updated bulletins and best practices as this evolved into a more daily status, you know, somewhat normal response, I can say as normal as normal is going to be, but really we fall direction locally here in Sacramento County with our local health officers, which was, you know, somewhat different with the nation or different areas of the state based on total number of affected people and numbers of cases that we had confirmed.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (05:51):
Thanks, Chief. Has your department had enough PPE? Have you run out of any N95 masks? Like we've heard so many agencies scrambling for?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (05:59):
So we have run critically low and we initially started with our department uses P100s for a little higher, better level of protection, obviously that wasn't the known mask that was put out by the CDC or all the media hype. So, N95s weren't a concern, but we did run out of P100s. So we came into a plan of how we are going to start furnishing and using N95s. We got into the local stockpiles and had adequate, but it was a concern early on and we got down to, not running out, but down to critical levels of our normal use P 100-type face peaks.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (06:33):
Yeah. I've heard so many stories from around the country of people that was scrambling and coming up with what ifs, you know, they still knew they still had to respond, but if you have no protective equipment, people were scrambling. How about in San Antonio, chief Norris did, did your policies change over time? And whether they, because you were having problems with a supply of PPE.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (06:51):
So in San Antonio, we took a little bit of a different approach. Like in Sacramento, we had the personal protection guidelines, all of those other things. And one of the best things that I think has come out of all of this is it tended to make our personnel realize how important utilization of PPE is. And so it's always been kind of a, a second thought on medical runs and things like that. But all of this has really brought that attention to the forefront, which I'm personally thankful for because we're taking better care of ourselves. However, with policies, we put a lot of general orders in place and like everybody, we began the travel restrictions and the screening at the stations. And we've gone as far as, even for a period of time and postponing vacations restricting outside employment, doing some force protection measures and even getting to the point to where we closed our stations to even trading out time outside and detailing and overtime from outside.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (07:49):
So we've made some big changes there. We are to the point now to where we are wearing medical protection on every run that we do not wear a SCBA for. So we're wearing PPE, for respiratory protection and glasses protection on every run. It doesn't matter if we're changing out the batteries in a smoke detector or if we're running a full arrest. So those have led to some things. And actually one of the interesting things about this whole pandemic has been in I'm sure Sacramento is no different than, than us. You're fighting on two fronts. And so it became very clear to us early that we're not only fighting a disease and COVID-19, and trying to keep all of our folks safe, which are also fighting sheer panic.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (08:33):
We had a case where somebody was released after two negative tests, went to a local mall, turns out one of the tests because you couldn't get results for four days, came back positive later on. Our 911 calls went through the roof at that mall. And it was like, Oh my God, I was in the parking lot of the mall at the time, but that person may have been there. And so the sheer panic on the side of the has been something that we've had to deal with as well as everywhere has in the country.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (09:00):
As far as PPE, like I was talking about before, we were kind of fortunate to get ahead of it. We took, took advantage of that lead time that we had to order some non-conventional, you would say, means to protect our staff. And so all of our firefighters have been issued a half mask respirators using P100 cartridges instead of using the traditional N95 masks. One of the big things that we've had a problem getting is gowns just like everybody else. And that's been because with our decon practices and things here, doffing is the most important piece of the whole thing. And being able to safely doff a full suit protection versus a disposable gown is something that we've had a challenge with. So fortunately, we've been good on, on PPE and haven't had some of the challenges that other people have.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (09:48):
Well, that's fantastic. Could you just expand a little bit on the temperature check? I've been in touch with quite a few folks from around the country, and I think you guys in San Antonio were the first ones to Institute taking temperature of firefighters reporting for duty. First thing in the morning before they were even allowed to enter the station. Can you explain how that policy works?
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (10:06):
Yeah. And I'm not sure if we were one of the first ones, but we were definitely one of the first ones in our state that started measuring. So when the firefighters come in, they're required before they even enter the station, they're allowed to go into the Bay that we check their temperature and check to see if they're symptomatic for signs and symptoms of COVID-19. We have actually caught quite a few guys trying to come to work sick or some of our folks coming to work sick. Fortunately, at the very beginning, none of them were COVID positive. We've caught everything from the flu to American human coronavirus to strep, but we do screen our folks at the beginning of the shift, halfway through the shift and actually before they go home now, so we can be sure they're not taking anything home to their families.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (10:48):
That's awesome. Have you guys had firsthand experience of a lot of cases? CPR runs? I was in touch with some folks from FDNY where I used to work and my heart goes out to them at their peak average day in New York city, they have about 60 cardiac arrests when they hit their peak on, on April 6th, they had 360 cardiac arrests talk about an overloaded system. At the end of March, they were responding to 6,500 EMS calls per day. Has the call volume spiked in Sacramento? Chief House?
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (11:21):
No, actually our medical aid response call volume has gone down about 13 to 15%. Given the day our fire activity has increased though with the stay at home orders, but our medical AIDS have gone down and our hospitals are, or our elective surgeries were, were banned. And, and we're seeing just decrease of those even starting to come back. So kind of interesting for us out here, like in San Antonio though, we were doing monitoring of our members coming in before shift.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (11:49):
Yeah, that's fantastic. I think that's cutting edge. That was the first time I heard about that was in San Antonio. When you have a 911 call that comes in for potential covert case, how was your SOP directing the medics that first respond do they, They both enter the building? Do they try to get the patient to come outside the building? And what kind of PPE are they typically wearing?
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (12:13):
So at first we were doing what we call a scout technique. And so we would send one person up to the door. They would kinda be the team scout to see what kind of situation we were dealing with and in an effort to try to conserve PPE until we had an assurance that we could see how this thing was going to ebb and flow only use PPE when we absolutely needed it, or when it was a possible COVID-19 patient, that person would go up, start to ask questions, make sure everything's okay.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (12:43):
And then we would be able to advise on what level of PPE everybody had to wear. And then we also implemented restrictions that the only ones who needed to be in there were the ones that we needed in order to provide that care. So even if one of our paramedics from the ambulance would go in, his partner would stay outside. And the fire crews that were inside would help him bring the patient out. Once we, this thing really started ramping up, we started to get community spread. We went to wearing PPE on every run. And so to this date, we're wearing our APRs, goggles, gloves, gowns, when necessary on every run that we're not utilizing SCBA. So car accidents, everything because it is out there in the public. And we just have not been able to back that down yet.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (13:29):
Wow. That's got an adjustment extrication while wearing a face mask and full gown.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (13:35):
And actually one thing that really is daunting is trying to run a fire. And so you have no idea how much, how many lips you read at a fire call when you're trying to run a structure fire, but now that everybody's half their face is covered up, it's really important that you visualize and really pay attention to what they're saying, not just kind of hearing them off to the side and paying attention to what their lips are doing. And so it's taken a lot of improvement from us to improve our communications and actually communicating with everybody through a mask over a radio is much more difficult than we anticipated.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (14:10):
Are you seeing something similar to that in Sacramento Chief House?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (14:13):
No. And that's interesting. That's probably something that everybody on this can benefit from this listening to the broadcast nationwide is, you know, when you make those kinds of decisions, a communications still hampering thing on the fire ground. And when you add different face protection in there, sometimes you even forget about that. That's good information, chief. For us in Sacramento, we took kind of a different approach. We didn't change our best practices for PPE on our medical AIDS for our, our normal response calls. But we did has got with our, we have a regional dispatch center and we, we asked them to do a really good investigation, PUI calls patient under investigation for COVID-19 and contact information relaying. That was of a key, we got update reports from our dispatch or comp center on that to all of our crews, very early on, open up great line of communication with our contact center and with our crews that we really never had before.
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (15:03):
We just enhanced that. And on those calls, you know, the initial practices were to send limited number of people up to actually do further investigation and preach a lot of good common sense. And we were fortunate throughout this, up to this date. We've only had two members that have tested positive. So we kinda really put the onus back onto the individual to say that you really need to maintain great situational awareness, do some good questioning and make real good practical decisions. And it was in line with what we were seeing with our burn rates on our PPE. We asked all of our trees to do daily inventory checks that ran through the battalion chief. So they had awareness on our PPE monitoring and it worked out actually looking back at it very successful for us. It was confirmed by just having, you know, two more than we wanted to have test positive, but 2 members tested positive up until this point. And we're kind of fortunate right now where we're today actively going out and doing antibody testing on all of our members. And those numbers are confirming that our PPE was very effective and work worked really exceptionally well for us.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (16:07):
Any preliminary results yet, or that's still too early.
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (16:10):
So we're, we just started antibody testing for all of our members yesterday. So B shift is just about wrapped up right now. We're roughly at about 170 members on shift. We've got probably, I think it's less than three that show positive for antibodies.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (16:27):
Interesting. I've heard some stories from around the country about firefighters that have had to do CPR on a COVID-19 likely patient or confirmed patient having real anxiety about ending their shift and heading home to their family. Stories of some firefighters sleeping in their car, trying to get their quarantine by going to sleep in their camper on their property at home. Have you guys seen any of that and your departments and how has the department addressed that issue
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (16:59):
In San Antonio one of the things that we did early is we had basically an isolation shelter for our folks, if they would, if they became symptomatic and they were going to be tested for COVID-19, we would provide a place for them to stay if they needed that. One of the general orders we did put out was for our folks to start forming an isolation plan at their own homes. That was always the recommendation from CDC, IAFC, IAFF, all of them were, you know, you need to isolate at home. So we wanted our personnel to start looking at places around their house so they could isolate and that paid off. And I'll say, fortunately here we've had six cases, but what was weird for us as they were all in one location. So one station is where all six of our positive personnel have come out of we're universal masking in the stations. Right now we have an isolation procedure even in the stations, but we were able to provide that shelter for them if they needed it. But most of our personnel that either became sick or they failed a temperature screening, elected to isolate at home. Another thing that we did. So for full arrests and issues like that, as we started to buy more enhanced equipment. So filters for our BBMs that we could put on the exhaust ports to ensure that we're not getting anything coming out of the tube to aerosolize and then some meter dose inhalers instead of using albuterol treatments through a nebulizer. So we did a little different, we did several different things to try to knock down the risk for our personnel.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (18:25):
Are you seeing something similar to that in Sacramento, Chief House?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (18:28):
I know a lot of the same things that they talk about in San Antonio, as far as, you know, identifying and making recommendations about isolation areas in your own home. We quickly identified two of our fire stations that we would use for quarantine members that wanted to utilize that we got with our local, obviously very early on and maintained through our incident management team or our emergency operations teams is what we call it here, we opened up a care or outreach group, and that group worked in conjunction with staff, but also worked with our local too, make sure we had open lines of communication to any member that was under quarantine, tested positive or a suspection of further testing went to augment or whatever the case be to follow up on. But we insured that communication up to offer any needs that they had, whether that was it with their families, coming back to work, what that looked like, how long they needed to be quarantine, the changing guidelines that seem to hurt us throughout the pandemic, just cause everything evolved very quickly.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (19:28):
And how about in your fire stations, Chief House? Are your firefighters being encouraged to wear a surgical mask or some type of breathing protection?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (19:37):
We're not. We're following County, obviously public health orders, our health, officer's not determined that face coverings were necessary. It was a show so distancing. And if we had a confirmed obviously person to quarantine, but for general operations, no. What we did do is we shut down a lot of ancillary type activities. So we didn't allow any visitors. So only employees could enter the firehouse. Any training was shut down except for installation training, all ride alongs and internships, those were all shut down. We just really decreased the number of potential exposures throughout.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (20:15):
And how about in San Antonio? Chief Norris. Are visitors allowed in fire stations?
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (20:20):
Not at this time. And so we've closed the fire stations down to anybody from outside the department relatively. And so, you know, if we have peace officers that come in or we have somebody that actually has to do maintenance on the station, they all have to go through screening procedures. But like chief was saying the ride along programs, things like that I've come to pretty much a halt unless our own personnel, but he does bring up a very good point. And I think we'd all be remiss to say it. And it sounds like they've been very successful like we have with the communication. And so that is actually a huge point to anybody who, who I've talked to has been successful during this thing is not only communication with your personnel, but communication with your labor association, communication with public health communication with your politicians.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (21:08):
I know we've had, like, it sounds like they have in Sacramento, we got with our labor organization very early in this thing and it's been actually a very good relationship working with them. I know they've been working with the IAFF and the IAFC to make this thing go smoothly. And because, you know, sometimes there's a lack of trust for administrations. You know, the, our personnel don't always understand what administration is trying to do for them. And so they turn into the union and if the labor organization is saying, Hey, you know, they, they are doing what they're supposed to be doing. It's helped us out a lot. And it has been some hardship for, I know our, for our labor association that, Oh, "you're just in cahoots now with administration", but no, it's been the recommendations from everywhere that we've been trying to follow.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (21:52):
And everybody's been trying to stay in lockstep, but we've actually been trying to communicate with our personnel more as well. So one thing we instituted is a weekly WebEx call where myself and the chief of operations will get on a WebEx call with the leadership of the fire department three times a week. So everybody from battalion chiefs and we've even had some stations on there to communicate, "look, this is what's happening this week. This is what goes on". And then we actually record that phone call on the Wednesday and put it out for everybody to watch on our, through our learning management system. Chief brought up a very good point and communication has been key to this whole thing.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (22:30):
That's fantastic info. The last question for both of you guys today. How do you think the world and the fire industry will be different after this is over? Chief House?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (22:40):
That's the million dollar question. I think it's no secret it's going to be, and I hate to use the same term everybody's using, but what the new norm looks like. I think that we're going to be in a situation that probably we're going to see some rebounding, no secret, you know, after the summer, I think that the fire service is going to change. Like we always do. We're going to be better for this. Take a look at hindsight and where we can make some improvements. I think our relationship with all surrounding, partnering stakeholders, that type of stuff is going to be key. Once again, we're all in this together. I think the biggest change is looking at how we can always improve, not overreact, but take care of the public. You know, it's been interesting throughout this to see how different agencies react or act during pandemics or intense situations. I think we need to always remember that we're public servants and our key to success is what the public believes in us trust in us. And that we're always going to be better for them and with them where this actually goes. I think that's, that's unknown at this point.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (23:51):
Yeah. I think we all wish we had a crystal ball. Chief Norris?
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (23:56):
I don't need a crystal ball. I'll take a magic eight ball at this point. Anything that'll help us out. But I think what is the new norm going to look like? Number one, I think a better PPE use is definitely something that's going to come down through the fire departments. I think personnel everywhere. And I've been on, you know, several conference calls as I'm sure Chief House has about man. Our folks are taking more and more awareness of what PPE is out there and how to properly use it and, and what that means. And in protection of themselves, I think sanitation at fire stations, believe it or not, may actually get better. People are realizing that you actually have to wipe down some surfaces and mop every now and then and keep your area clean.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (24:36):
I think that's going to come out of this. I think improved communication, just something that is definitely need to, to continue in the fire service. We've all been looking at ways to do that. And I think since we actually haven't been able to get together and we've been using technology more that that'll enhance the communication and the fire service, and that has seemed to be the key and it's been very popular. And then just for us not coming to work sick as firefighters, we want to take care of one another, just like we want to take care of the public and you know, sometimes you, Oh man, well, we got you today and all this other stuff, Oh, that's heightened the awareness now of, Hey, why are you coming into our station? And you've got a fever. And so I think those are some things that are going to go to the new norm, but just like cheat houses saying, you know, we gotta be good stewards for the public. We have to take care of their concerns. I'll tell you I've even gotten complaints when our folks weren't wearing masks as to why they weren't wearing masks and they were going into my house and I've been, you know, quarantining myself. And so I think we have to pay attention to what the public is doing. We have to pay attention to what is going on around us. And unfortunately we do have to kind of see the future as we were talking about as to what our needs are going to be in the future. Is this going to come back? Who knows?
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (25:51):
With not coming into work when you're sick, I think I'm certainly guilty of it throughout my career. I think it's a cultural shift we need to make. I think we'll be better for it. You know, our paying benefits and working conditions with labor management relationships are there for a reason. I think that's been proven in this pandemic is that you know, we, if we are sick, we need to really stay home and utilize that benefit and not make it worse for everybody. But I think that's a very valid point and I know that's heavy discussion here in our agency and has been nonstop communication if you are sick, go home, please, during this time.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (26:27):
Yeah. I agree with you chief housed in the one thing that I would also add to that, Bob is better organization during public health emergencies. And so I don't know how it is in California or in Utah actually, but I can tell you in Texas by statute, when a public emergency, the public health authority seems to they, they have statutory authority over what happens. And there has been some disconnect, not only at the local level, but at the state level. And I think at the federal level, as well as yes, public health knows pandemics and they knows disease processes and contact tracing and ideology or through disease processes, however, the fire services and FEMA, and some of well, the Texas department of emergency management, some of the emergency management resources around the country are really good at running big incidents like a pandemic. And there seems to be a disconnect in there a little bit. And so I see those types of things changing in the future to get the appropriate decisions made at the different appropriate levels and some better training in between the two resources.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (27:35):
Great info. Really appreciate it very much. I know for myself, I see a tremendous greater awareness of hand-washing and just personal hygiene, I think moving forward in the future I think we are going to be a healthier society just because we're so much more aware, as we've said for many years after 911, never forget. That's hope we never forget these self awareness and hygiene practices that we've picked up here and they carry them forward to make us all the healthier group.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (28:06):
Yeah. It really hurts my style. I'm a hugger. And so, you know, it's, it's it's kind of put a crimp in my style.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (28:14):
I agree with that. It's so hard for me not to shake hands with people I meet, but and this elbow thing isn't really doing it for me.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (28:21):
Being a big guy. It's the foot thing that gets me. And actually it's kind of weird because if the, if the person I'm hugging as a mother, that makes me a mother hugger.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (28:35):
Well, Gentlemen, on behalf of all the firefighters around North America that will be listening to this podcast and in the near future, I want to personally thank you both for taking time out of your very, very busy schedule to share these best practices and lessons learned and being a part of our inaugural podcast, the rapid fire podcast, hosted by Fire-Dex, please stay safe and stay in touch. I look forward to getting together with you find fire chiefs in the very near future.
Assistant Chief Adam House, Sacramento Metro FD (29:03):
Well thank you Bob Keys. You're a great man. So I appreciate you.
Assistant Chief Brian Norris, San Antonio FD (29:06):
Thank you, Chief Keys. I appreciate it. And Chief House, thank you very much. It was good to meet you.
Bob Keys, Retired Battalion Chief for FDNY (29:10):
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Rapid Fire. Follow Fire-Dex on social media or visit firedex.com for podcast updates, or products and news.